14087/Ever Used One Of These

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Ever Used One Of These
Date of Scene: 24 January 2022
Location: Watkins Glen State Park, New York
Synopsis: Alexander teaches Natasha about ancient weapons because she isn't scary enough already.
Cast of Characters: Phobos, Black Widow (Romanoff)




Phobos has posed:
    For once they are beyond the city, having left it behind in the chill of winter and letting the world be ever so distant away from them. It was to the North they drove perhaps a half an hour along the interstate to Watkins Glen State Park, a place that would give privacy this time of year and allow the two some time where if some emergency beckoned it would have to be a fairly dire one.
    The outing had been planned, at least on the part of one of them. The back of the SUV was filled with gear that had been covered with a tarp and Alexander did not give Natasha time enough to poke and prod and find out. Which left an element of mystery to what was back there. It wasn't revealed until they had pulled up at the empty camp ground, the wheels of the SUV grinding snow and gravel under their tread. Once they had gotten out he had pulled open the back door and /yanked/ the tarp off.
    Revealing a myriad of weapons all set in a lovely pile and held don with a few bungie straps.
    "Today..."
    Alexander smiles sidelong toward the Black Widow, "We play with sharp pointed objects."

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
It was a mystery. And Natasha wasn't a woman who liked surprises. Ever. Which made it all the more frustrating when she never got a chance to see what he was hiding before she was rushed into the vehicle and off they went on a field trip somewhere. Which he also didn't share. There was a sign that announced the State Park as the entered the grounds and that got an arched brow but she knew not to ask because he had already not answered the dozen times she'd attempted to gain information.

It was a good choice for solitude at this time of year. While it was technically open, few people wanted to go out there in this weather. They preferred their hiking in the spring or summer. It wasn't a ski destination so it was rare they would get a visitor.

Finally she was able to get out of the vehicle and rush to the back when he did the big reveal. So many weapons. Nothing that went bang. More things that required a bit of finesse and skill.

As he said those words, she stared at the weapons for a long time then turned to him. "I knew I loved you for a reason. Marry me," she teased.

Phobos has posed:
    At the teasing proposition he leaned over and ruffled her hair affectionately, smiling sidelong at her. "I thought I would share with you some insight into the ways of my pipples." His grin is a crooked thing, "Though technically this is a big deal since very few people know about it. The way the ancient Spartans fought has been lost to time for the most part. Even the Themyscirans' techniques are similar, but not entirely the same as they followed the ways of Athena more than my father."
    That said he leans over and sliiiides a pair of long-hafted spears with terribly sharp leaf heads and a metal-shod haft creating in essence a seven foot long weapon with a larger blade on one end, but also a smaller point on the other. "Figure we go over the philosophy of things, the approach, and then can show how things changed over time. But if in the future we get caught in another recreation of Greece and you're forced to fight in the arena at least it won't be as strange to you."
    That said he sets those spears leaning against the SUV, then he pulls out a pair of circular shields each with a smaller circle sliced out of the edge to create a notch or a hole. They rest on top of a pair of larger square-like shields that also have notches on either side of it. "So the spears are Greek, and the shields, the square ones are Scutum from Rome, and these spears..." He pulls out another pair, "Are pilum, they're meant for throwing, the heads break off so people can't throw them back and they stick in the shields of the enemy so they can't use them when the infantry lines clash."
    Four swords are drawn from the back, short swords, perhaps three feet long each and in leather sheaths. They're not ancient looking, more just utilitarian, but when one is drawn they have edges that's clear. "Some spatha, and gladii."
    "But that about covers it."

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
She's captivated. Listening to every word, drawing things out of memory that she's heard about Sparta and Ancient Rome. Some of the great fighters of their times. With skills that are long lost to the majority of the population.

She looks over the spears as he explains, picking out those details. Then the swords. "I've been trained in some swordplay," she admits. "Fencing in it's various forms. As a just in case situation and for high society roles where it might be helpful. But admittedly," Natasha pauses as she looks at the two types of spears. "I have never touched a spear. So, even without it being the tactics of Ares, you will be teaching me something new."

She does take a shield and looks it over. "Again, little experience here other than throwing Cap's shield to him when he loses it in a fight."

Phobos has posed:
    Taking up some of the gear and tucking it under one arm, he gets the spears in place and then grabs two of the shields to get under his other arm. He turns and starts to carry them out into the clearing past that campground area where normally bonfires and gatherings are held. Though right now it's just snowy with bits of grass sticking out and small stones visible.
    "Well ages ago, in the Classical period, lots of wars were fought of course. And sometimes the Greek city-states needed to train a lot of people quickly. This is where you get the image and the books that explain how the Greeks fought way back when, in their phalanxes or with the hoplites. But when you need to train a bunch of people quick, you need to teach them small things to focus on, teach them about what they're going to be doing. And in this case it was a lot of them fighting together as a unit. In wartime they didn't spend a lot of time teaching people how to fight solo or as a warrior, more a soldier."
    He stops at the middle o the field and drops the weapons. But he takes up that long seven foot spear and rests it on his shoulders, arms looped over it like some scarecrow. "So they used the same weapons. But what they'd learn..." He swings the spear around and extends it toward her haft first and sideways so she can take it. "Is how to fight in a group. So take up that shield?"
    And as he bids her to do so he does so himself as well so they'll both be armed the same way.

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
It makes sense. One couldn't teach new people the finesse that could come with a weapon in a short time frame but they could teach enough. Throw in unit tactics and more people might stay alive. Sound.

She accepted the spear, hefting it as she considered the weight and balance of the weapon. It was very long. Far longer for her than it was for her trainer. She was kind of used to that with many hand weapons though. Daggers were nice for that reason since they were light and fast, something that used her agility. But a weapon like this gave a lot of reach.

"I remember reading about the phalanxes and that sort of unit work for both protection and attacks. I've also seen movies, though I suspect most of those are flash instead of substance."

She settled with it in one hand then scooped up the shield, something that was a bit more familiar to her hand at least. Then she waited because taking up some pose or pretending she knew what she was doing here was useless.

Phobos has posed:
    "It's mainly, a difference in philosophy. It held up when you were in groups." He takes his own spear and steps to stand beside her. Reverses his grip casually and then hefts the weapon up over his shoulder and /thumps/ it down into that notch in the shield. Then he extends the shield forward and steps to the side next to her lightly bopping her hip with his.
    "Ok so do what I do." And if she does she'll take a similar posture. "So difference in philosophy is that when they trained farmers and merchants and whomever to fight, it wasn't so much about killing your opponent. The most important thing..."
    He clanks his shield against hers as he stands at her side. His left hand holding the shield and bringing it up to protect her, "Is defending the person next to you. The life of your fellow warrior was in your hands if you stood to their right. S'why they'd put the best warriors on the very end. But it was all about protection, save your fellows, and kill as you can."
    He hunkers down then, his sweat pants getting a little wet from the snow underfoot that is kicked up as they move about. "You use the shield to brace if you need it. Thrust forward to kill when you see an opening. The three stances are like so," He unhooks that spear from the notch in the shield and slides it to the side, under it, over it, shifting grips from overhead and overhand, to to the side and underhand. He demonstrates several of the thrusts and occasionally clanks his shield against hers and supports her spear.
    "Can you imagine it?"

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
He has an avid student. As he takes up position, Natasha is examining everything from the spear and shield to where he placed his feet to center his balance. She followed his instruction and took up the position herself, though not nearly as cleanly since she wasn't used to flipping a spear around like he was. This was a thing he had not shared with her previously but she remembered when they had been tossed to the past, or faux, timeline, he had gone for a spear to carry with him.

He'd also looked damn good in the clothes but she wasn't going to focus on that. At least not right now.

When he fell into line next to her, she tracked when he raised the shield. "So it was more you trusted your unit to do their jobs too." Interesting that bit. She had wrongly assumed everyone protected themselves, it just made a more formidable thing to be attacking for the enemy.

Each of the three stances was attempted though again, her movements were far less smooth than his. But she got the idea and performed passably well.

"About how many did they have in these units?" she asked, visualizing lines of warriors with their spears and swords.

Phobos has posed:
    "It varied from city-state to city-state. Athens got into huge blocks of spearmen and phalanxes rose out of that with the longer and longer spears becoming pikes." Alexander straightens up, "The Spartans, however, had smaller units. Sometimes only forty to eighty men in a unit, sometimes more. But..."
    The young Olympian smiles as he again eases up beside her and inhales, then exhales slowly, his breath visible in the morning chill. He's only wearing those sweats, t-shirt, and sneakers. But with the amount of physical activity they'll be doing it'll warm up quick enough. "When you have larger units like that holding a formation? They become less agile. In part one of the reasons the Spartans were so good at battle is they could hold formation and move quickly. Some of this was due to their training, but also to their unit size. Easier to get 40 guys turned around and hustling than 320. As the unit size gets smaller... you get more offensive-minded. You flank people and go in for shock to disrupt their formation, and in those moments when you break another group and they're routing... well you stop defending and go on the attack."
    Then Alexander smiles a little, "Now, imagine a unit formation of one, and how quickly that allows you to move yes? And suddenly the philosophy is entirely opposite."

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
Trying to get 320 adrenaline-overflooded fighters to hear in a time without radio communications and the sound of battle potentially? Yeah, that would be nigh impossible. It would require several people relaying and that was lost time. Forty seemed more likely to be able to be heard, even though possibly still tricky at times.

Flanking an opponent was a basic concept for tacticians. Everyone understood it and the importance. Throw in shock and awe when expecting slower moving enemies. Very nicely done.

"Unit of one?" That she was more familiar with. A single fighter going into a combat situation. One on one. It was what she often had done in her career, long before she was part of SHIELD. "Single person. Easy movement but more difficult since you don't have someone defending you. It's all one you so you need more skills to be able to perform that way. Or at least some rudimentary training?"

Phobos has posed:
    A nod is given, "Which is why the Spartans would train for dueling, one on one conflict, and the like. And those situations... where you were likely facing someone who only had training in those lock step defensive formations? Well you had a certain freedom and the advantage rested on the one who would move quickly and could redirect quickly."
    That said he steps to the side from her and gives a nod, "The typical image people have when two fighters face each other with sword and shield, or spear and shield is somewhat static. They hold their ground, endure, look for openings." Alexander hefts the shield, spins the spear around over the back of his wrist with a rather clear method of showing off as he grins at her.
    "The Spartans, and in truth my father, he advocated a more active approach." That said he takes the shield and holds it up, adjusts his grip on the spear. "So imagine that dead tree..." An old oak that had seen better days and likely was going to fall over the next few years, "Is your opponent."
    And as he says that he starts forward, walking at first, then as he gets closer he breaks into a jog... then closer still a run and he hops forward to the side on one shoe then the other with a second bounding leap and as he makes that second leap...
    The spear lances out like the bite of an asp, blurringly fast and /stabs/ hard into the bark, aided by his running stride and the thrust of his strong arm slamming it home...
    But he doesn't stop running, once contact is made he spins and hits with the shield, turns and stabs back with the haft of the spear and then half-jogs away back toward Natasha and as he reaches her he slows, then stops as he smiles and thumps his spear against his shield.
    "So you go in, you don't let your opponent know what is going to happen, strike, and since they're thinking defensive you can move past and reset for another run. Force them to chase after you, get out of their comfort zone. And once they do, then things get interesting."

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
"Interesting." She sounds like she is musing over that word. "I somehow suspect the opponent wouldn't find it as interesting. But I see your point." She can't help grinning.

Truth be told, she just wanted to watch him do that a few more times. It wasn't just learning the weaponry. It was seeing him in action. She'd seen him as a SHIELD agent. She'd sparred with him in hand-to-hand. But seeing him with the more historical weapons? It was like he was home. And he seemed to be enjoying himself to boot. Why hadn't they done this sooner?

"Is there a specific technique to not manage to get your spear stuck in the wood when training?" A person, oddly enough, would be easier to yank it out of. She had experience with bladed weapons and human bodies to know that much. "Then I'll give it a shot before you explain how much more interesting things are about to get."

Phobos has posed:
    "Twist, and pull, same as when you strike bone." Which is perhaps a grisly way to answer. He shifts his grip on the spear and rests it over one shoulder, the shield held light and easy in one hand. "Mainly you approach this best by not thinking of locking yourself in one place, move around, move quickly. Defense is important, but you want to set the tempo. Then when your opponent moves after you, or if you face someone who has trained in a similar way, is when you get into the more intricate aspects of interplay between spear and shield. And in some cases you actually then do hunker down and focus on defense and look for openings."
    His smile curves wry as he knows he just talked around in a big circle, "But usually only with someone who is near your equal."
    A nod is given then, "I'll make a few more passes at that, and you can then try and duplicate and I'll edit as we go. Or we can stick to big picture and I can explain how things changed to using the spear at range and a sword instead of spear up close."

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
Grisly but fitting. She understood that concept. Not everyone would. In fact, it might gross some people out entirely if they thought about it. Yet, being who they were? He'd chosen the perfect one.

"Just a couple more so I can see again, then I'll try."

In all honesty, she did want to see the technique again. But she also just wanted to watch. Which might seem creepy but he was beautiful, particularly when he was deadly. Weird but true.

"Then you can get back to the big picture of why the sword became more popular over time."

Phobos has posed:
    "Well it was more in part how the Romans turned war into a business in effect." But he doesn't elaborate on that at first as he swings the spear back around. He's not wearing the armor, nor the cloak, but the way he moves with the gear it's as if he was born to it. Which might not be too far from the truth, or he was very young when he began his training. Very young.
    He then squares up to the dead tree and draws himself inward, taking a deep breath. Focusing, she can feel that subtle roil in the chi that they share, can tell when he's so intent. Then he breaks into a run again, hustling faster this time like a charge with the spear held over his shoulder as if he were about to throw it. He closes the distance, leaps once, then /sliiiides/ on his knees as he thrusts the tip of that spear almost to knee level as it slices through the side of the tree as if cutting into the calf of his opponent, kicking up gravel and snow as he spins around and thunks the lip of his shield hard into the trunk of that tree then rolling past as he continues on.
    This time he keeps moving past then turns around to make another go, faster this time, coming back at the tree as if making sure it didn't have time to gather its breath, only this time he chokes up one the spear as he charges, leaps leading with the shield to /clunk/ hard into the trunk of the tree and then stab backwards with the haft into the trunk with a _whud_ that sends chips of bark into the air...
    Which ends with him jogging back toward her. "There, it's all about momentum, striking from off angle, hitting and getting clear."

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
"So much like me when I attack with a knife. But with better reach," Natasha murmurs. Because it is a very different thing outside that general point. Pun not intended. And because she wasn't used to the weight of the spear or how it moved, she was not going to be nearly as graceful. Yet, she was game to learn.

Knowing his father, he likely had been training Alexander from the time the boy could walk. Many would criticize how Ares had raised the boy. But he had done what he knew and, honestly, she couldn't fault Alexander's fighting skills. He was amazing. It was one of the things that appealed to her. Throw in he had knowledge she did not and that allowed her to learn as well as teach, since she knew things he did not.

She hefted the spear, giving it a bit of a shift from overhand to underhand and back, feeling the movement. Then she took a slow breath and faced that defiant dying tree. She started with the walk then moved into the jog and finally the run. Obviously following the example from his first attack. The step to each side, enough to potentially throw off someone trying to judge where the attack was coming from. The final leap using her full body strength for the attack, slamming the blade home. A quick turn and twist, yanking it free as she brought the shield around to slam against, feeling that second impact up her arm and into her shoulder just like the first. A little bit of a clumsy spin sadly but she manages to bring the haft of the spear in for a quick jab before disengaging and moving back to him at a slow jog.

She was dressed much like him but she had on a couple of layers of active wear to fight against the cold. A pair of boots on her feet instead of sneakers only because she hated soggy socks.

Phobos has posed:
    "I hadn't thought about it before," He says when she's back close enough to chat without shouting, "But yeah. When you're going in against someone with a knife you want to minimize exposure, misdirect, and get a quick good cut or stab and get out so they can't injure you as they die."
    Which, again, is morbid. But they had that together, the ability to discuss on this level with no qualms nor reluctance. But then he's setting the shield and spear down, "That right there, should give you an edge against most you might face in the future if you had to use a spear and shield. We'll get to the more intricate stuff once you feel comfortable with the charge."
    He then takes up the large square shield that when he slides it onto his arm and adjust the grip almost blocks the entirety of his side from view. "So this is the Scutum. It's what the Roman legionaries would use. Once again you were to help protect your brother in arms at your side, but the Romans would cycle in soldiers in and out at times. Sometimes to help the injured sometimes just to give tired warriors a break. Defense became more self-defense. And you took what offense that presented itself with the gladius." He takes up the smaller sword, then turns to present the shield toward Widow.
    "The whole thing was you advanced and stomped on your opponents' feet if they didn't give way, and then you reached around the shield and cut them nastily." He grins at the simplification but he does demonstrate the reach and from the angle facing the shield she doesn't get a clear view where the sword strike is coming from, it just slashes out quick now and again.
    "But they still used spears, but more in the traditional way of throwing them." He set the shield and blade down, then picked up the pilum and extended it to her, "The front foot is all metal and is made to go into shields and through them, then this part..." He touches a smaller weaker bit of wood that is inside the pilum's grip and can be seen in the gap holing the spear head to the haft, "This would break, and the spear would then drag the shield down making it a lot easier to stab the person behind it if they kept trying to use it."

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
As he set his weapons aside, she did the same. She did not pick up the new ones yet, instead paying close attention as he explained then demonstrated. The shield was a nasty number. It would be difficult to get around at all, especially when lined up with others. And being able to line up and attack without the opponent being able to see it, forcing them to just hope that it wasn't coming from the point they were focused on. She could see why the formation would be so effective.

The information that they would rorate people in and out of the formation was new. Yet again, it made sense. If one fell, the setup wouldn't help much. So replacing them was paramount. By replacing those getting tired, they could almost fight forever or until the other side ran out of numbers.

It was a nasty bit of work and she had more respect for it seeing how it worked in his demonstration.

She took the pilum and examined it, noticing the difference in the feel. When he pointed to the smaller bit of dwood, she looked at the hole and let out a low whistle. "Now that's just nasty." Which was said like she was impressed. If it hit a shield, the weight would shift from the hanging haft. And if it hit a person, same thing. Even if broken off completely, that would take time and effort, which one might not have in that situation.

Phobos has posed:
    A nod is given, "The Romans would throw two volleys usually, then close in for the hard work, but they still trained rather in depth at using the sword as a sword in the times they weren't going to be fighting in formation. So they had that edge over a lot of Greek soldiers when out and about."
    A small smile is given, "But if you want to learn learn, then we should start with the Greek spear and shield, and work on some drills. Once you feel comfortable with taking runs at the tree, we'll move on."
    As he says that he steps up to her and rests his hands on her hips while she holds that pilum. He kisses her forehead and murmurs, "And I should mention you look damn sexy with a spear in your hand, darling dear."
    As he says that he grins and crinkles his nose, teasing her a little. But telling the truth.

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
"Do I?" she has to ask, because she isn't sure she sees it. Certainly he did. But she wasn't as skilled and just flowing like water when handling it. Though now that she knew about it? She was going to learn.

"Is now the part where I tell you the same? And that I imagined you in that outfit from our little trip? Do you still have that?" she adds with a mischievious grin, shifting the spear to the side so she can rise up on tiptoe to give him a quick kiss.

Phobos has posed:
    "Yup," He answers and returns the kiss, then he laughs a little. "Yeah, I mean... really there's not a lot to that outfit. The cloak, the helm, the wrap, the shin guards... the sandals?" And that was pretty much it. It left relatively little to the imagination.
    He slips his arm around her waist and turns to look at the tree off in the distance. "Shall we play when we get home? The Spartan Hoplite meets the Deadly Ninja?" Even as he lightly bumps his hip against hers playfully.

Black Widow (Romanoff) has posed:
"Yeah, there's not a lot to it." Natasha repeats. Then she draws in air and lets it out in one of those longing sighs like one sees in movies, when one person is thinking about the person they were interested in. The little smile makes sure it is obviously a happy sigh. "Which makes it all the more appealing."

At his suggestion, she can't help laughing then she gives him that side eyed look, the amusement there reflected in her green eyes. "But which of us will be which? Or just take turns."