15752/The Facility

The Facility
Date of Scene:	30 October 2023
Location:	Triskelion Holding Cell
Synopsis:	Steve questions the German scientist Nemetz and learns of the existence of the Facility, as well as the disturbing possibility of the existence of other live clones of the Avengers.
Cast of Characters:	Spider-Woman (Drew), Captain America

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Spider-Woman (Drew) has posed:
Some days after their return to America after freeing the German prisoner camp, Steve and Jessica are summoned to SHIELD headquarters. Seems Steve doesn't need to apply pressure to get time with the German doctor, Janik Nemetz -- apparently the man was asking for him.

He's being held in one of the subterrainian rooms beneath the Triskelion. It's not a terrible place -- there's a comfortable enough single bed, a private bathroom, and reading material -- but it's fully isolated from the ouside world, in addition to being closely monitored both through electronic means and via SHIELD personnel.

"Thank goodness you're here. They told me you rescued my family, and I-" and then the doctor catches sight of Jessica, who, to be fair, is easy to miss behind Steve's bulk. The doctor pales. "No, I can't, not with her there-" and he begins to freak out. While Jessica's less than pleased, she does retreat and let the pair talk. Nemetz comes down almost immediately as soon as Jessica's gone, but there's still a pale tone to his features. "You can't trust that she is who she says she is," he turns his serious gaze on Steve. "But you saved my family, and I made a promise. The place you seek, it's called the Facility. I don't know precisely where it is, but I know it's in the Alps, no more than an hour's drive from Salzburg, Austria."

"I... I was doing gene research for them. They told me it was to help grow healthy cells for existing volunteer patients. I had no idea they were growing monstrocities." Nemetz looks at the door after Jessica. "Not until later. And then they had my family, and they gave me no choice." He looks both distraught and defiant at his choice.

Captain America has posed:
It is something of a relief that Steve doesn't have to go to the mat to try and force his way into a meeting with Doctor Nemetz. He might have been willing to do so, but he is never entirely comfortable issuing threats or ultimatums. Heck, he doesn't even like being impolite.

So the fact that SHIELD is not only willing to let him speak to the doctor, but invites him to do so is a definite benefit. Even if it is largely because the man seems to prefer speaking to him. And while it is all but a guarantee that they will be listening and recording every word said, it's not like Steve is all that interested in keeping any of this a secret. He can do that, when he has to. But again, it always leaves him a little uncomfortable, a little conflicted.

The man's reaction to Jessica is not necessarily a shock. Afterall, they both saw what could have been her twin back at the installation. It is enough to make any one cautious and the blonde super soldier nods her way as she grudgingly chooses to extricate herself from the room so that the doctor will speak.

It's not ideal, but it's understandable. And it's not like she won't be able to hear every word, to watch every reaction as well.

"I understand your caution sir, but in this case it's not warrented. I saw, well, I guess you're more or less confirming that they have the capability of cloning people. But I've known her for awhile and I'm fairly difficult to trick," he asserts with a brief smile as he takes a seat across the table from the man.

Oh course difficult is hardly impossible. One hopes that his confidence isn't truly put to the test.

Steve listens to the man explain where the base is -- or at least the general area -- and nods his head slowly. SHIELD will be able to call upon satellite imaging and reconnisance that he doesn't have easy access to. Hopefully that will narrow it down enough for them to zero in. They usually come through, sooner or later.

"I understand. It was an impossible situation," Steve says quietly, not willing to condemn the man for doing what he had to for his family. But it certainly has created a problem. "Can you tell us anything aobut the process? How quickly they can create these duplicates? I presume that the process only biologically duplicates the individual? That they don't somehow have access to memories or personality or anything beyond what might be publically known?"

Spider-Woman (Drew) has posed:
Cloning people? Yeah -- here's where Janik Nemetz shows his true colors. At his heart, he's a scenitist who only somewhat considers the ethical implications -- he's animated, /excited/, when Steve suggests that. "Yes. Yes! I didn't think it possible. I mean, yes, we've managed to clone more simple organisms, but the levels of success are varying and near impossible to predict."

The man's eyes are bright. "I was getting back samples and told to analyze them. They were /my/ samples, but changed. These weren't cells being generated outside of a body, these were from a living host organism. A great many of them I could immediately tell were defective -- cascading failures that would result in complete organ failure. I ordered the source samples destroyed." The source /people/, but he calls them 'samples'. "But there were a few -- a handful -- that appeared to have several months of stability and appeared to be viable samples. With the right stimuli and external growth factors, rapid development is certainly possible. Technologically, I mean. You would have to, how do you say it, break a lot of eggs to get a viable, full grown specimen. Even then, the rapid growth byproduct likely means their life span would be severely limited."

Steve's question about memory -- personality -- gets an impatient wave of Nemetz's hand. "Not my field. Though possible. HYDRA has had such implantation technology for decades. Your /friend/," and he sounds unconvinced, glancing towards the door way, "Is well aware. The thing, Captain," he leans closer, murmuring as if sharing a secret, oblivious to the many microphones and cameras recording, "-is that these people, they won't know what they are. They won't be aware of their origins. Why would they be? There is no value in telling them. It would only cause contention."

Captain America has posed:
While it is understandable that the doctor might prefer to talk to one of those who was responsible for his rescue, to one of those who kept his promise and insured that his family went free as well, Steve Rogers is not exactly a scientific expert, and while there are all sorts of implications in what the man has to share, and a number of them definitely do fall into the realm of science.

While he might not exactly be the same man out of time that he was when he first awakened, while he has grown increasingly comfortable with the technological leap forward that has taken place since the last days of World War II, he is still definitely not the first Avenger anyone would call on when there is a technological problem. Still, sometimes you just do the best you can. Soldier on. The blonde-haired man does know a little something about soldiering at least.

That Hydra can implant information, personalities isn't unknown to be sure. As the doctor indicates, there is a good example of that closeby. That is certainly a problem. But less of one then if they could somehow grow subjects that brought along all the knowledge and personality and skills innately. Would that even be possible? It seems far-fetched. But he's not a scientist! Hence the problem with having him direct the questioning.

The doctors enthusiasm for the subject is a little disturbing, even if Steve inherently understands that the man is likely fascinated by the scientific puzzles and questions raised, seperating them out from all the moral and ethical questions that should be tied closely to them as well. At least in Steve's mind. It's not as if he hasn't seen similar from his friends from time to time. Would Steve or Bruce or any of the other scientific geniuses that he finds himself around truly be any different if they were on the other side of the table from him? He keeps that in mind as he listens to the man, not judging him, just nodding quietly as he listens.

"So if I understand you the process is not a clean one? They might have to try a hundred times to create a viable clone that reaches the proper age. Most will fail long before that, but so long as they have the resources and willingness to just try over and over again, sooner or later they will likely produce a copy? And with their other technology they can implant these copies with the knowledge, skills and personality that they choose? Even keep them from realizing that they are not the original."

Spider-Woman (Drew) has posed:
"Oh, yes," Janik Nemetz answers, eagerly, "I imagine the try-slash-fail cycle extremely high, based on the test samples I was sent. Easily ninety five percent of the samples were either in or near to cascade failure state. And of those five percent that passed an initial test, many were showing signs of cell degradation that could suggest imminent failure. Of course to be sure of my hypothesis, I'd need to be given access to the data in the Facility-"

Yes, Steve knows that look. The hunger for knowledge, for advancement, without consideration for any ethical or moral implications. He saw it during the war, too. And he saw, and fought, many of the horrors such an unchecked mindset created.

"-Genetics is my specialty. I can't say for what process the clones underwent. But yes, yes, all possible with the technology Hydra has access to. If I had known my assistant was one of them... oh, the questions I would have asked her. I hadn't the faintest clue. And I'm not certain she did either. No, I'm certain she had no idea, until she saw your companion."

Captain America has posed:
Some things never change.

Too many really. For all the advancements that have been made in the decades since he went into the ice, so many of the same problems, the same flaws seem to rear up again and again. Technology might be advancing at a faster and faster rate. Unfortunately human beings do not seem to be on quite the same exponential path, at least not when it comes to their moral and ethical evolution.

It can make for a pretty ugly picture sometimes.

Human failings aside however, Steve doesn't overlook the fact that his job here is to get the doctor talking, to get comfortable sharing what he knows without worrying about whether or not the people holding him in 'protective custody' are judging him. They need the truth, not carefully editted facts that the man hopes makes him look good.

And Steve -- and Jessica -- now have all but definite confirmation that Hydra can make duplicates of people. And that they likely have both of their DNA to play with, along with an unknown other number of Avengers. Not good news to be sure. But he would rather know then not. They can deal with threats they know about, prepare for them. Preparing for the unknown is a great deal more difficult.

"Understood doctor. Obviously I can't say how much information SHIELD will be able to make availab le to you, but I'm sure they would be most grateful for any assistance you can provide," he says diplomatically and non-committally. Who knows what course SHIELD will take with the man. He would hardly be the worst individual they have ever worked with afterall. It is the dirty part of the whole espionage world that again, doesn't exactly suit the blonde super soldier.

"Is there anything else that jumps to mind that is extremely important in your mind? You mentioned that you never suspected your assistant might be one of their experiments so under the right circumstances they can obviously function unnoticed? How long was my friend's clone working with you? Were there any unusual signs at all, or does it take significant genetic testing to recognize the truth?"

Spider-Woman (Drew) has posed:
Janik Nemetz believes Steve, absolutely and unconditionally. Why wouldn't he? Steve is inherently believable, and from his perspective he's merely telling the truth. Of course, that the doctor extrapolates that to access to the data, access to continue his work, well... that's obvious in the bright-eyed anticipation. "Yes! Good, good. I will help of course, as best I can. This can be used for good, you understand. We could grow literal limb replacements, or hearts -- imagine a heart grown by your own cells. No more issue with compatibility, blood typing, any of that."

He's not wrong. There's plenty of genuinely good medical possibilities. It just comes with a lot... a /lot/ of ethical quandaries that doctors haven't yet agreed on. And, may not for ages. Hydra's never had that concern to hold them back. Unfortunately, it's a good guess that SHIELD may well put the doctor to work. He's sharply intelligent and the work he's been doing is frankly cutting edge... if frightening. It would be amiss of the government not to take advantage of that knowledge.

Nemetz pauses to consider Steve's question, frowning. "Well. Now that you mention it, I suppose there was some quirks. Sometimes, I would ask her simple questions, and she would pause for a great deal of time, or look puzzled, like she couldn't remember. We were working long hours. I put it down to her lack of self-care. But thinking back, it's possible all the neutral pathways necessary for cognitive function hadn't yet fully formed to make what we take for granted as thoughtless as breathing." His fingers tap thoughtfully. "She was, uh. She had some unusual physical tics that I didn't think much of at the time. And she was getting increasingly slow. In thought and action. It might be a side effect of the cell degradation, but I'd need a sample to be sure-" which isn't happening, since they very much exploded the base, assuming the Jessica-clone survived at all.

"-perhaps," he taps fingers against his lips. "Mental tests they wouldn't normally be subject to. The kind of unthinking things we learn. Say, a lullaby sung by a parent, or a song we like that we remember. We can hum bars or sing the chorus of a song we haven't heard for years. It wouldn't be a thing Hydra would waste time implanting."

Captain America has posed:
It does help to have a nearly unimpeacable reputation.

Of course Steve has that particular reputation because he has earned it, again and again. So many people believe that Steve Rogers is nearly unimpeacable because that is pretty much how he has always lived his life. Even beyond the public persona that was created to surround Captain America. It works because there was such a solid basis for it in reality. There aren't many shortcuts to achieving that sort of thing.

Of course the doctor is not wrong in his assessment. While Hydra might be putting the technology to some very dangerous and extremely questionable uses, the blonde super solider has no doubt that it could likely do a great deal of good too. That's not even a question.

It does raise up the ugly spectre however that looking back over the steady march of science, there hardly seems to be a discovery or advancement made that had the best of intentions but wasn't somehow weaponized, frequently in ways never imagined let along intended by it's creator or discoverer.

Still, it's probably not fair or realistic to expect SHIELD to not even bother exploring the possibilities. There are hills that Steve would certainly be willing to die on. This one falls far too into the grey area for him to feel confident that there is one right or wrong answer.

"Interesting," he comments as the doctor reminisces over his recollections of Jessica's clones and some of the potential 'tells' she might have had that she wasn't in fact a normal human being. Or at least not a typical one. Certainly by the sounds of it, even Hydra's 'successes' might come with some significant liabilities.

Here's hoping they don't perfect the process.

"You've been extremely helpful Doctor and I appreciate it. I'm sure SHIELD will have other people with a better grounding in the actual science who want to pick your brain for knowledge on the more technical aspects of your work," Steve says quietly, nodding to the other man. "Keeping your former captors from being able to exploit this sort of illicit research is obviously extremely important. You're cooperation is very important."

Spider-Woman (Drew) has posed:
"Of course, of course. I want to do everything I can to help." Steve has a good ear for when he's being placated, and that's clearly what the Doctor is doing. That's not his goal at all, though it might be an outcome, it's not what drives the man of science. "Your Director has told me that my family will have a good, safe life here, and I want to give back, in thanks to you for sparing them." The latter, at least, is genuine. Janik Nemetz does love his family. Whether he loves it more than the science is a harder thing to discern.

The door opens, and a deliberately blank-faced Jessica is standing there. She waits until Steve joins her -- until the door is fully closed, before she exhales a long, emotive-fueled sigh. "Some days it just feels impossible to tell who is supposed to be the good guy from the bad guy." She gives Steve a sidelong look, just a little smile. "Good thing I left. I really wanted to punch him in the face when he started talking about my clone." Sure, her clone was a big ass, but it doesn't mean she doesn't feel /some/ sympathy.

"Anyway. Ops is doing research for the base. It might take a while. The Alps are a big place. But if what the doc says is right, there will be signs -- that sort of facility requires heavy power draws." Her shoulders shift, and she casts another look at Steve. "How are you feeling? Need to punch something? Eat a big greasy burger? Look at a sunset, cuddle a puppy?" One gets the distinct feeling from that list it's a regular check in she does with herself.

Captain America has posed:
It is one thing that he is still getting used to in this time. One thing that he may never get used to, no matter how hard he tries.

When he went into the ice things seemed so clear. The Allies were the good guys. Hydra and the Nazis were unquestionably bad guys. It was all black and white. No mortal ambiguity. No need to question what side you found yourself on. No need to doubt the motivations of friends and allies. It definitely seemed like a simpler time. Not necessarily better by any objective standard.

Now it seems that everything is some sort of shade of grey. No more black and white, no more clear distinctions. The dcotor isn't a bad man per se, and yet Steve has no doubts that if he had his way he would be back in a lab tomorrow, working on the same project with enthusiasm, either oblivious or uncaring that SHIELD will undoubtedly use his research in a similar if likely better controlled fashion.

The world changes. He just tries to adapt and keep true to the core of himself, no matter the challenge.

So he nods to the doctor as he gets back to his feet. "Glad to hear it," Steve offers up quietly. "Best of luck. I hope you are your family are safe and happy going forward," he adds. That much is certainly true at least. He might wonder, might worry about the man's ethics, but that doesn't mean he wishes him anything but the best. That too is very much Steve.

Slipping out of the interrogation room, rejoining the stony-faced Jessice the blonde super soldier takes a moment to assess her, how she has taken in all of this. Truthfully it is not really anything they probably hadn't already guessed at. But now they have confirmation, straight from the horse's mouth. It can't help but change things. Mkae it a little more real. A little more ominous.

"Probably wouldn't have encouraged him to be quite so free with his information," Steve agrees quietly, a look of sympathy on his face. He might not have felt the urge towards violence, but it's hard to think of Hydra's creations as monstrocities. They appears to be as badly used as anyone in this story, victims in their own way no matter the threat they pose. ""But I get it. This whole situation is ugly," he agrees quietly.

That they will have to wait for awhile is no surprise. Even SHIELD only has so much information at the tips of their fingers. Even once they know the location there will be a need to plan, to prepare, to move resources into place. Unless of course he and Jessica get impatient with the waiting and just storm off to handle things in their own way. But either way, first they need to find where they're heading next. "Not unexpected," Steve agrees before smiling briefly. "And those all sound good to me. We probably have a few days wait minimum ahead of us I'd imagine. I expect we can fit them all in, maybe a couple of times each," he suggests wryly.

"Either way, I think it's time to get out of here for a bit," the blonde maan says, glancing about the halls of the Triskelion. It might be a nice place to visit, but he's awfully glad he doesn't live here.

Spider-Woman (Drew) has posed:
Jessica makes a faintly annoyed sound of resignation of the logic of Steve. Punching people certainly makes them less inclined to talk. Well -- some people, anyway. "You're probably right." Yeah, she looks unsettled, and angry and kind of frustrated about this whole thing. Clear boundaries of good and bad have always been a hard thing for her to discern. She's often relied on Steve for that guidance, and if Steve can't tell, she /absolutely/ cannot.

She really does kind of want to punch that doctor, though. When Steve agrees and proposes few days of happiness therapy -- yes, that's what her therapist calls it -- Jess looks positively delighted, bumping her shoulder into Steve's and beaming brightly.

"Oh, good. Because I have a puppy lined up. I mean, not literally. But I just happen to know there's a man who always walks his German Shepherd puppy through Central park at precisely five-fifteen pm. He's the cutest thing, the puppy, I mean, his ears are still all floppy. And before you ask, no, I'm not stalking him. The guy. Maybe the puppy a little. My therapist already asked. But you'll understand when you see those ears." Jessica is all for leaving the Triskelion. In her experience too few good things happen here.